Comments on: A conversation is needed, don’t you think? http://boomerbabesrock.com/blog/flooded-wresponses/ Just another WordPress weblog Sat, 31 Jul 2010 19:58:21 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.5 By: Eric Smith http://boomerbabesrock.com/blog/flooded-wresponses/#comment-14315 Eric Smith Mon, 08 Oct 2007 18:43:41 +0000 http://boomerbabesrock.com/blog/flooded-wresponses/#comment-14315 Hey Suzie! I was trying to figure out which cartoon 'boomer babe' you were supposed to be at the top of the page?? ;^) We sure had a wonderful time during your visit and everyone is still talking about your awesome ministry here at Destiny! Blessings, Eric Hey Suzie! I was trying to figure out which cartoon ‘boomer babe’ you were supposed to be at the top of the page?? ;^)

We sure had a wonderful time during your visit and everyone is still talking about your awesome ministry here at Destiny!

Blessings,

Eric

]]> By: Keri http://boomerbabesrock.com/blog/flooded-wresponses/#comment-13684 Keri Mon, 01 Oct 2007 21:22:30 +0000 http://boomerbabesrock.com/blog/flooded-wresponses/#comment-13684 Great idea, Dotsie, I plan to pick up the book. Thanks Keri Great idea, Dotsie, I plan to pick up the book. Thanks
Keri

]]> By: Suzie Eller http://boomerbabesrock.com/blog/flooded-wresponses/#comment-13668 Suzie Eller Mon, 01 Oct 2007 14:28:01 +0000 http://boomerbabesrock.com/blog/flooded-wresponses/#comment-13668 I'm living in a new city today, with no Internet access as of yet (I'm at a local university borrowing a computer). : ) I appreciate your comments, and again want to stress that my heart in this article isn't to down our girls, but to come alongside them and to show them new ceilings to bust in areas of education, walking with God, leaving legacies, service, and more. They are ready! Are we? I’m living in a new city today, with no Internet access as of yet (I’m at a local university borrowing a computer). : ) I appreciate your comments, and again want to stress that my heart in this article isn’t to down our girls, but to come alongside them and to show them new ceilings to bust in areas of education, walking with God, leaving legacies, service, and more. They are ready! Are we?

]]> By: Dotsie http://boomerbabesrock.com/blog/flooded-wresponses/#comment-13664 Dotsie Mon, 01 Oct 2007 13:40:59 +0000 http://boomerbabesrock.com/blog/flooded-wresponses/#comment-13664 As the mother of a 20 year-old daughter and 19 and 22 year-old sons, this is a topic of importance to me. It is not only the messages that the girls are receiving. It has a lot to do with the messages the boys receive too. If any of you are interested in learning more about this topic, read the book Female Chauvinist Pigs: Women and the Rise of the Raunch Culture, by Ariel Levy. There are even discussion questions at the end of the book. Keri, maybe you and some other mothers and daughters could do a book study together so you have the platform to discuss these issues with your young gals. I'd read the book first if you choose to do that. Anyway, I am gratefu we have Suz to tackle this topic from a Christian perspective for us. You go girl! As the mother of a 20 year-old daughter and 19 and 22 year-old sons, this is a topic of importance to me. It is not only the messages that the girls are receiving. It has a lot to do with the messages the boys receive too.

If any of you are interested in learning more about this topic, read the book Female Chauvinist Pigs: Women and the Rise of the Raunch Culture, by Ariel Levy. There are even discussion questions at the end of the book.

Keri, maybe you and some other mothers and daughters could do a book study together so you have the platform to discuss these issues with your young gals. I’d read the book first if you choose to do that.

Anyway, I am gratefu we have Suz to tackle this topic from a Christian perspective for us. You go girl!

]]> By: Keri http://boomerbabesrock.com/blog/flooded-wresponses/#comment-13660 Keri Mon, 01 Oct 2007 12:33:33 +0000 http://boomerbabesrock.com/blog/flooded-wresponses/#comment-13660 Tim, I think we agree about the biblical interpretation, you're correct that we must look at the entire context. Where I would disagree is in your assumption that "there are women who have utter contempt for the biblical instructions..." There may be some who feel that way, but I think their contempt, actually, is for the interpretation which you alluded to, where men use just a few verses to proof-text their way into bullying their wives. (you say "some men" do this--I think a lot of men do this) Often, it's not just individual men who do this but pastors who decree it for their congregation. I've known of women who were being physically abused being told by their pastor to submit, because that's what the Bible says. That's what inspires contempt--the misinterpretation of those verses. Not knowing the correct interpretation, women give up on the church, or put up with abuse. Also, I don't think girls who dress sleazy realize that they are submitting. they realize that doing so gives them a sort of power (twisted as it may be) and if that's the only way that they can get power and attention, they'll take it. It's not good, and they end up, as you said, being controlled by men's evil intentions. Thanks for engaging in an interesting discussion. Tim,
I think we agree about the biblical interpretation, you’re correct that we must look at the entire context.
Where I would disagree is in your assumption that “there are women who have utter contempt for the biblical instructions…” There may be some who feel that way, but I think their contempt, actually, is for the interpretation which you alluded to, where men use just a few verses to proof-text their way into bullying their wives. (you say “some men” do this–I think a lot of men do this)
Often, it’s not just individual men who do this but pastors who decree it for their congregation. I’ve known of women who were being physically abused being told by their pastor to submit, because that’s what the Bible says.
That’s what inspires contempt–the misinterpretation of those verses. Not knowing the correct interpretation, women give up on the church, or put up with abuse.
Also, I don’t think girls who dress sleazy realize that they are submitting. they realize that doing so gives them a sort of power (twisted as it may be) and if that’s the only way that they can get power and attention, they’ll take it. It’s not good, and they end up, as you said, being controlled by men’s evil intentions.
Thanks for engaging in an interesting discussion.

]]> By: Timothy Fish http://boomerbabesrock.com/blog/flooded-wresponses/#comment-13659 Timothy Fish Mon, 01 Oct 2007 12:16:40 +0000 http://boomerbabesrock.com/blog/flooded-wresponses/#comment-13659 Keri, Let's not forget to include verse 24 as well, but yes, those are the more specific verses I was referring to. As you said, these verses need to be taken in context, not only with verses 25-33 which shows how the husband's love and relationship to his wife demonstrates the relationship that Christ has with the church, verse 33 which gives more instruction to both the husband and wife, and the verses in chapter 6 that show the responsibility of children and servants, but the verse preceding it must also be taken in context. The use of the word for submit in verse 21 appears to be the reason that Paul began the train of thought that followed, beginning first with the wives, then the husbands, the children and then the servants. Even with this link, verse 21 is not an island to itself. Our Bibles have chapter divisions, but verse 21 is actually only one of four verses that make up a sentence. The preceding verses, which refer to not being drunk, being filled with the Holy Spirit, and speaking to each other through singing and thanksgiving are very important in how we are to understand verse 21. Yes, some men will try to pull verses 22-24 and verse 33 out of context so that they can use it as a proof verse to get their way all the time, ignoring the needs and desires of their wives, rather than looking at the husband’s greater responsibility to love his wife and to put her needs above his own, even to the point of giving his life for her. I suppose that women have a right to take issue with that type of thing, but that has little to do with the point that I was attempting to make. The point I was trying to make it that there are women who have utter contempt for the biblical instructions concerning a wife submitting to her husband, but these same women will submit themselves to the evil intentions of men who do not love them enough to be concerned for their needs, much less enough to be willing to die for them. Keri,

Let’s not forget to include verse 24 as well, but yes, those are the more specific verses I was referring to. As you said, these verses need to be taken in context, not only with verses 25-33 which shows how the husband’s love and relationship to his wife demonstrates the relationship that Christ has with the church, verse 33 which gives more instruction to both the husband and wife, and the verses in chapter 6 that show the responsibility of children and servants, but the verse preceding it must also be taken in context.

The use of the word for submit in verse 21 appears to be the reason that Paul began the train of thought that followed, beginning first with the wives, then the husbands, the children and then the servants. Even with this link, verse 21 is not an island to itself. Our Bibles have chapter divisions, but verse 21 is actually only one of four verses that make up a sentence. The preceding verses, which refer to not being drunk, being filled with the Holy Spirit, and speaking to each other through singing and thanksgiving are very important in how we are to understand verse 21.

Yes, some men will try to pull verses 22-24 and verse 33 out of context so that they can use it as a proof verse to get their way all the time, ignoring the needs and desires of their wives, rather than looking at the husband’s greater responsibility to love his wife and to put her needs above his own, even to the point of giving his life for her. I suppose that women have a right to take issue with that type of thing, but that has little to do with the point that I was attempting to make.

The point I was trying to make it that there are women who have utter contempt for the biblical instructions concerning a wife submitting to her husband, but these same women will submit themselves to the evil intentions of men who do not love them enough to be concerned for their needs, much less enough to be willing to die for them.

]]> By: Keri http://boomerbabesrock.com/blog/flooded-wresponses/#comment-13550 Keri Sun, 30 Sep 2007 03:42:34 +0000 http://boomerbabesrock.com/blog/flooded-wresponses/#comment-13550 Question for Mr. Fish--when you say women "cry foul" for the mention of Ephesians 5, are you referring to vs. 22,23 which are often pulled out of their very important context (esp. vs. 21). Women "cry foul" when men try to use these verses to manipulate and control women. It is the misuse and misinterpretation of these types of verses that sends a twisted and false message to women: you do not have value apart from men. You are subject to men. You cannot lead or achieve the same things as men. I think this type of sexism within the church contributes to the confusion young women face today as much as the secular culture. Question for Mr. Fish–when you say women “cry foul” for the mention of Ephesians 5, are you referring to vs. 22,23 which are often pulled out of their very important context (esp. vs. 21). Women “cry foul” when men try to use these verses to manipulate and control women.
It is the misuse and misinterpretation of these types of verses that sends a twisted and false message to women: you do not have value apart from men. You are subject to men. You cannot lead or achieve the same things as men. I think this type of sexism within the church contributes to the confusion young women face today as much as the secular culture.

]]> By: Cheryll http://boomerbabesrock.com/blog/flooded-wresponses/#comment-13545 Cheryll Sun, 30 Sep 2007 02:47:53 +0000 http://boomerbabesrock.com/blog/flooded-wresponses/#comment-13545 Hello Suz: Boy your article is right on! I just got back from the large mall in Charleston and everywhere I looked the young girls were dressed in outfits I would never have dreamed of wearing when I was their age. I feel so sorry for our teens. Everywhere you look, ads, tv, magazines, even thier peers, emphasize looks over intelligence. If you even remotely act intelligent, you are labeled a "geek" and if you dont dress in the latest styles you are labeled worse. The pressure to "fit in" and be popular all centers around thier attire and not whats inside. And most of the "attire" must be the most revealing, form fitting item in the store. We can only hope more people like you step up and take a stand. Trying to show our youth it's not what you look like, but who you are that really counts. Hello Suz: Boy your article is right on! I just got back from the large mall in Charleston and everywhere I looked the young girls were dressed in outfits I would never have dreamed of wearing when I was their age. I feel so sorry for our teens. Everywhere you look, ads, tv, magazines, even thier peers, emphasize looks over intelligence. If you even remotely act intelligent, you are labeled a “geek” and if you dont dress in the latest styles you are labeled worse. The pressure to “fit in” and be popular all centers around thier attire and not whats inside. And most of the “attire” must be the most revealing, form fitting item in the store. We can only hope more people like you step up and take a stand. Trying to show our youth it’s not what you look like, but who you are that really counts.

]]> By: Denise http://boomerbabesrock.com/blog/flooded-wresponses/#comment-13518 Denise Sat, 29 Sep 2007 19:19:58 +0000 http://boomerbabesrock.com/blog/flooded-wresponses/#comment-13518 Suzie, Your comments are right on. As I write and minister to this age group, I am overwhelmed with the lack of knowledge that permeates this culture. Thinking themselves wise, they have become fools. I am just thankful that there are people like yourself willing to risk standing out for truth. I am beside you in this. Keep up the good work. Suzie, Your comments are right on. As I write and minister to this age group, I am overwhelmed with the lack of knowledge that permeates this culture. Thinking themselves wise, they have become fools. I am just thankful that there are people like yourself willing to risk standing out for truth. I am beside you in this. Keep up the good work.

]]> By: Timothy Fish http://boomerbabesrock.com/blog/flooded-wresponses/#comment-13499 Timothy Fish Sat, 29 Sep 2007 11:58:23 +0000 http://boomerbabesrock.com/blog/flooded-wresponses/#comment-13499 I read the article and I thought it was well written. This is an issue that bothers me. I don't know whether to call it interesting or frustrating when I say that I have encountered women who will cry foul if I even mention Ephesians 5, but some of these same women see nothing wrong with doing things and dressing in ways that promote the idea that a woman has nothing more to offer than her body. You are in a better position, than I, to encourage women and girls to hold out for husbands who cherish them as Christ cherishes the church, rather than settling for men and boys who could not care less about what they do otherwise as long as they look good and give them the sensual things they want. Your actions in the store remind me of some very dear Christians that I have known in my life. They were probably a little older than you when I saw them taking similar actions. If more people would take a stand against inappropriate behavior when it happens then those doing these things would become better able to recognize that inner voice that is already telling them that what they are doing is wrong. I read the article and I thought it was well written. This is an issue that bothers me. I don’t know whether to call it interesting or frustrating when I say that I have encountered women who will cry foul if I even mention Ephesians 5, but some of these same women see nothing wrong with doing things and dressing in ways that promote the idea that a woman has nothing more to offer than her body. You are in a better position, than I, to encourage women and girls to hold out for husbands who cherish them as Christ cherishes the church, rather than settling for men and boys who could not care less about what they do otherwise as long as they look good and give them the sensual things they want.

Your actions in the store remind me of some very dear Christians that I have known in my life. They were probably a little older than you when I saw them taking similar actions. If more people would take a stand against inappropriate behavior when it happens then those doing these things would become better able to recognize that inner voice that is already telling them that what they are doing is wrong.

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